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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on RPG combat systems #1</title>
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	<link>http://destral.wordpress.com/2009/05/12/thoughts-on-rpg-combat-systems-1/</link>
	<description>Life, the Universe, and Games</description>
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		<title>By: Thoughts on RPG Combat Systems #3: Character relationships as they apply to combat &#171; Destral&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://destral.wordpress.com/2009/05/12/thoughts-on-rpg-combat-systems-1/#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator>Thoughts on RPG Combat Systems #3: Character relationships as they apply to combat &#171; Destral&#8217;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://destral.wordpress.com/?p=197#comment-105</guid>
		<description>[...] tie it in with the action gem system I detailed in the first ToRPGCS, perhaps the triggering of one of these actions requires and expends an active action gem. This [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] tie it in with the action gem system I detailed in the first ToRPGCS, perhaps the triggering of one of these actions requires and expends an active action gem. This [...]</p>
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		<title>By: destral</title>
		<link>http://destral.wordpress.com/2009/05/12/thoughts-on-rpg-combat-systems-1/#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>destral</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 06:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://destral.wordpress.com/?p=197#comment-87</guid>
		<description>A lot of good points, Tesh. The way I envision it, the focus is on the patience and tactics. You watch the bars fill up, when the character you want to use has enough gems for the attack you want to perform you select them (the game could then pause for you to enter commands, or it could keep running, as is the case with all of Square&#039;s ATB system games). You select your action, the target, and it resolves. When it&#039;s an enemy&#039;s turn to attack, it moves up to the character being attacked, and while it does you might get button prompts  above the heads of the characters who can perform defensive actions, or a bullet-time type of thing during which you select a character to perform a defensive action (if they have active gems). When the window of opportunity closes, the attack resolves, with defensive actions resolving before the attack proper lands. Like you said, testing would be required to see how much information the player can process and keep track of without becoming overwhelmed.

The idea came about after reading a post somewhere where the writer was making comparisons between RPG combat and fencing, where in the latter most of the &#039;fighting&#039; is actually the back and forth of feints and counterfeints while each participant looks for a weakness in the other&#039;s defense. I was thinking it would be interesting to try to build something like that into a combat system, and was thinking that maybe feints would be attacks that had a chance of lowering the enemy&#039;s defense, but did no actual damage, opening them up for the next attack or something. There would be timed button presses involved, during the attack animations, and if you did really well you got the option of following the feint with an actual attack that dealt damage, without requiring a second action. But then I started thinking about how to implement defense, and came up with this instead. There might still be something in that other combat system, but it would probably have to be tailored specifically to a more limited type of combat (maybe like the duels in Suikoden).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of good points, Tesh. The way I envision it, the focus is on the patience and tactics. You watch the bars fill up, when the character you want to use has enough gems for the attack you want to perform you select them (the game could then pause for you to enter commands, or it could keep running, as is the case with all of Square&#8217;s ATB system games). You select your action, the target, and it resolves. When it&#8217;s an enemy&#8217;s turn to attack, it moves up to the character being attacked, and while it does you might get button prompts  above the heads of the characters who can perform defensive actions, or a bullet-time type of thing during which you select a character to perform a defensive action (if they have active gems). When the window of opportunity closes, the attack resolves, with defensive actions resolving before the attack proper lands. Like you said, testing would be required to see how much information the player can process and keep track of without becoming overwhelmed.</p>
<p>The idea came about after reading a post somewhere where the writer was making comparisons between RPG combat and fencing, where in the latter most of the &#8216;fighting&#8217; is actually the back and forth of feints and counterfeints while each participant looks for a weakness in the other&#8217;s defense. I was thinking it would be interesting to try to build something like that into a combat system, and was thinking that maybe feints would be attacks that had a chance of lowering the enemy&#8217;s defense, but did no actual damage, opening them up for the next attack or something. There would be timed button presses involved, during the attack animations, and if you did really well you got the option of following the feint with an actual attack that dealt damage, without requiring a second action. But then I started thinking about how to implement defense, and came up with this instead. There might still be something in that other combat system, but it would probably have to be tailored specifically to a more limited type of combat (maybe like the duels in Suikoden).</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://destral.wordpress.com/2009/05/12/thoughts-on-rpg-combat-systems-1/#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 14:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://destral.wordpress.com/?p=197#comment-85</guid>
		<description>A system like this seems built around tactical choices and patience, but the active nature of it leans to the frenetic.  Valkyrie Profile works because you have one button per character (with a D-pad modifier in some cases), and Star Ocean works because you only control one character at a time.  They have simplified their combat so that it can stay quick paced while still being interesting.

This kind of a system would need something similar to keep players from getting bogged down, just looking at the bars to nail the timing.  (And if the party is too big, having offense and defense options for each character could require a lot of controls.)  Also, if the characters have ATB gem triggers that don&#039;t sync up with other characters, that&#039;s another potential snag, as players have to pay attention to a lot of different timers.  It runs the risk of turning into a control memorization/timing minigame, feeling more like a Dance Dance Revolution riff than tactical combat.  The non-bar visuals would also have to be designed to assist in the recognition and execution of tactical choices, rather than distract from them.

I like the idea, and I don&#039;t think those concerns are unsurmountable, it would just need some tuning and testing to see how much information you can bombard the player with and not break the fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A system like this seems built around tactical choices and patience, but the active nature of it leans to the frenetic.  Valkyrie Profile works because you have one button per character (with a D-pad modifier in some cases), and Star Ocean works because you only control one character at a time.  They have simplified their combat so that it can stay quick paced while still being interesting.</p>
<p>This kind of a system would need something similar to keep players from getting bogged down, just looking at the bars to nail the timing.  (And if the party is too big, having offense and defense options for each character could require a lot of controls.)  Also, if the characters have ATB gem triggers that don&#8217;t sync up with other characters, that&#8217;s another potential snag, as players have to pay attention to a lot of different timers.  It runs the risk of turning into a control memorization/timing minigame, feeling more like a Dance Dance Revolution riff than tactical combat.  The non-bar visuals would also have to be designed to assist in the recognition and execution of tactical choices, rather than distract from them.</p>
<p>I like the idea, and I don&#8217;t think those concerns are unsurmountable, it would just need some tuning and testing to see how much information you can bombard the player with and not break the fun.</p>
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		<title>By: destral</title>
		<link>http://destral.wordpress.com/2009/05/12/thoughts-on-rpg-combat-systems-1/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>destral</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 07:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://destral.wordpress.com/?p=197#comment-83</guid>
		<description>Agreed. What would you construe as &#039;annoying&#039;? I could see it becoming really tedious if you constantly had to skip your characters&#039; first actions to save them for defense, which would actually slow combat down further from the current &#039;tape down the A button&#039; grinding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed. What would you construe as &#8216;annoying&#8217;? I could see it becoming really tedious if you constantly had to skip your characters&#8217; first actions to save them for defense, which would actually slow combat down further from the current &#8216;tape down the A button&#8217; grinding.</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://destral.wordpress.com/2009/05/12/thoughts-on-rpg-combat-systems-1/#comment-82</link>
		<dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 00:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://destral.wordpress.com/?p=197#comment-82</guid>
		<description>Interesting.  Sort of an ATB system with more granularity and interactivity.  The trick would be making it interactive without being annoying.

I like the idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.  Sort of an ATB system with more granularity and interactivity.  The trick would be making it interactive without being annoying.</p>
<p>I like the idea.</p>
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